Speaker 1: 0:00

You are listening to Making Sense of Work with Jean Balfour. Hi everyone, and welcome to Making Sense of Work Today. I'm delighted to be joined by Katie Hasson. Welcome to the podcast, katie.

Speaker 2: 0:19

Thank you, jean. It's such a pleasure to be here.

Speaker 1: 0:22

Hi, everyone so to tell you a little bit about Katie. Katie runs the Ignite team at Standard Chartered Bank, which comprises a team of 230 qualified executive coaches across 35 countries, and they work in various roles and segments within the bank and they then invest their personal time to volunteer to coach colleagues who are looking for change, seeking challenge and want to stretch themselves to improve their performance. The Ignite program aligns with the diversity and inclusion agenda of promoting more women, more local talent and people with disabilities into leadership positions by creating sponsored cohorts of self-nominated ambitious individuals within a certain level within the organisation. The Ignite program prides itself on creating these connections and these communities of like-minded individuals who are then coming together as coaches and clients. And for the coaches, katie supports them with a structured coaching community where they can learn and grow, where they get opportunities to practice their craft. And the coaching clients are supported through sessions to help them expand and enhance the experience they have through the coaching.

Speaker 1: 1:49

I've known Katie for a long time now. Katie did her coach training with us and I've watched this program grow and grow. We've also trained, I think, about 60 of your coaches over the last three years, so we've also been really privileged to see a lot of these people grow both in their coaching journeys and in their leadership journeys, and I know we're going to talk about that today. So welcome, katie again.

Speaker 2: 2:17

Thank you, as I said, so excited to be here Great.

Speaker 1: 2:22

So, as usual, we like to start with questions like how's work at the moment?

Speaker 2: 2:28

Oh gosh, it's a tough question to start with, I think. If I was very honest, how would I define work at the moment? I think it's a mixture of stressful and exciting.

Speaker 1: 2:41

When you have a really good day at work, Katie, what does that look like for you? For me, I love variety. So a really good day at work, Katie, what does that look?

Speaker 2: 2:45

like for you, for me I love variety. So a really good day is for me truly making a difference, a hands-on difference, and coaching our colleagues, either one-on-one or in a group, and that's really to get a pulse of what's going on in the organization and also what's going in our colleagues' lives and really to support and maximize their potential. Secondly, it would be interacting with our group of incredible internal coaches. So, as you said in the intro, we have over 240 internal Ignite coaches, but actually we have over 250 coaches who've done a program. It's about 20 hours. We call it Coaching Mastery.

Speaker 2: 3:26

So actually we have a team of 500 coaches and our team doesn't exist without them. So I love interacting with them and we have a lot of interventions. We have monthly learning sessions, peer-to-peer supervision and just drop-in Q&A sessions and I love hearing and seeing their coach journey and their insights. And I think, lastly, for me, I love a little bit of quiet and focused time. I'm really really lucky I'm based in Sydney, australia now, so Asia and Africa and the UK doesn't come on till much later about my lunchtime, and I think the blocked out focus time is really for us to work on the priorities and really just go over and beyond our kind of BAU day-to-day work.

Speaker 1: 4:12

Yeah, great, I can hear your energy around that variety and I'm imagining some people, including myself, sometimes a bit envious of that white space in the morning, but I imagine that has a knock-on effect and that you don't have white space in the evening. They often on evening calls and things like that, that is it yes. Yeah, so you're running the Ignite program now. Could you share with us how you came to be doing this job? What was your journey to here?

Speaker 2: 4:43

Yeah, well, I can tell you from the start of my career I didn't listen to my heart or my inner instincts and I blindly and compliantly followed my parents dream of becoming an accountant. And I remember yes, I was a tax accountant and I was at one of the big four consulting firms. And I remember it was only three months in that I realized I absolutely hated my job and I was really lucky. I cut this job nine months short and when I was reflecting on how much I hated it, I realized 95% of my job was really on the computer adding, subtracting, looking at legislation and 5% of the role was actually interacting with people. So within nine months I had then tapped into really what I should have been doing from day one and followed an HR path and I studied HR there and from there I've always been in banking, predominantly in organizational change management roles and project management roles.

Speaker 2: 5:41

And it was funny. It was about five years ago when, I will be honest, I was probably at my lowest both personally and professionally, and by chance I stumbled on coaching and once I got a little snippet of what coaching was, I can say that I absolutely found my passion and purpose and from there, of a snowball, which I'm sure we'll get into today. I find myself so honored and privileged to have carved out a, which I'm sure we'll get into today. I find myself so honored and privileged to have carved out a position where I'm running an internal coaching program.

Speaker 1: 6:11

Yeah, many people would dream about your job. I know and I had no idea that you were an accountant. So that's very interesting and it's amazing how you've been able to pivot away from that, to take those kind of strategic moves to get you to where you're doing, a job that I know fulfills you a lot. So that is amazing. So, before we get into the Ignite program, perhaps you could share a bit about your own coaching journey and you just said you kind of stumbled across coaching and then tell us a bit about that.

Speaker 2: 6:44

Yes, well, I actually really did. Stumbled across coaching. And then tell us a bit about that. Yes, well, I actually really did stumble across coaching and I remember my curiosity started in 2018 and it started by me scrolling through Netflix, of all things, and actually a new documentary from Tony Robbins I'm Not your Guru flashed up and I'm not Jean if you've watched it or any of your listeners, but I remember watching this and I became completely fascinated and intrigued on who was he and what was he doing, and I became obsessed and it was funny.

Speaker 2: 7:19

I was a young mom with two babies, I was working three days a week and I was the usual, classic young mum. I didn't prioritise any of my own needs, I didn't spend any time or investment and through that kind of documentary, I made a vow to myself that I was going to make it face-to-face in one of his seminars Flash forward. A year later, I was in Sydney a football stadium surrounded by 50,000 people and four days, 18 hour days and that is where the penny dropped and it's funny. I started speaking to a lot of crew members and all of them were coaches and there and then I made some really big decisions, both personally, professionally, about massive changes and I was really happy. I was really happy on the high of all the coaching and I thought, wow, I'm still stuck in my actual role. That I actually don't necessarily like, and I made a way to thought I'm just going to get out of my comfort zone.

Speaker 2: 8:18

I emailed our CEO of the bank and I told them that if we really want to change and accelerate the behaviors and performance outcomes of the bank, we need to introduce coaching. Not knowing I was in commercial banking at the time, we need to introduce coaching. Not knowing I was in commercial banking at the time. Coaching has always existed within the organization. Yes, it was only available to the C-suite, but he kindly, absolutely answered within 24 hours and I think it was from there. I had so many internal conversations and I stumbled across someone based in Singapore and she said do you want to be coached? And it was there that I experienced being coached and anyone who's listening, who has been coached. It's something that you would never experience before, because someone truly listens. And it was within a couple of months that I had started my extensive research and I found Eugene and I started starting becoming a coach myself and since then I had done not only my ACC and my PCC, and that's where the journey really began.

Speaker 1: 9:18

Great. And then so take us on from there to how the Ignite program sort of bubbled up and came about, because there was a bit of overlap, I think wasn't there during that time.

Speaker 2: 9:32

Yeah. So, as I said, coming off that I was completely obsessed with coaching, I knew that is exactly where I wanted to be. The only problem is I didn't have a coaching qualification, I didn't know what I was and I was not in a coaching organization. So, for me, I actually spent so many times knocking on so many doors and my advice to anyone is don't knock on 10 doors. Knock on 100,000 doors and you will find a way. And it was interesting.

Speaker 2: 9:59

I got myself involved in a diversity and inclusion working group and it was there that I convinced the sponsor to invest some money on a coaching program. But instead of spending all the money on an external provider, I said I found 10 internal coaches. They have BAU roles, but they're all coaches. Let's spend some money developing, training, mentoring these coaches in exchange for coaching these colleagues. And it was interesting. I was really really lucky.

Speaker 2: 10:31

He took the chance on us and we ran the program and there was visible results. Honestly, people were talking about who are these 10 people on the program, not only from them, but also our coaches. And it was interesting. It was probably about a year and a half later when I emailed our CEO to. Then I was actually presenting in front of our CEO and management team based on this pilot, and it was there that we created an internal coaching role and I think from there the rest is history. I mean, as I said, we've got over 230 coaches, we've run 12 cohorts, we've coached over about 1,500 people and we've really expanded into other programs. So it's really exciting.

Speaker 1: 11:15

Yeah, and I know that you started with focusing on women and you've now widened that to underrepresented groups within the organization to help focus on creating an inclusive and equal workforce.

Speaker 2: 11:29

Absolutely yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:32

And what are you seeing as the impact for those people who have been coached?

Speaker 2: 11:37

Yeah. So it's interesting. We partnered a big dream of ours and I remember in 2020, I kind of did a three-year plan and I remember in 2023, I said let's introduce coaching, a digital coaching platform, and it was interesting. Last year we actually partnered with Ezra I'm not sure if you've heard of Ezra, but now it's really exciting. All of our Ignite cohorts are actually run on Ezra. So when our colleagues are coached on Ignite, they choose their own Ignite coach.

Speaker 2: 12:07

And the best part of Ezra and our partnership together is it's becoming really easy to measure the ROI of coaching.

Speaker 2: 12:16

So what we are really seeing and not only ROI of coaching but monitoring our coach quality so it's really been a game changer the past kind of 18 months. And what we are seeing that all of our coaching clients their experience probably an 8% to 20% uplift from where they are when they started the program to where they ended the program. Also, we actually surveyed the people leaders of our colleagues being coached and also we're seeing significant uplift from pre and post. It's interesting 94% of our clients think that going on the program is a good investment for their time and they would recommend. We've had one in six coaching clients have either been promoted or changed roles. And probably lastly, the stat that I'm most proud of is one in 10 colleagues who have been coached then go on to upskill themselves to become a coach and give back. And that is kind of like we see it as the ecosystem and giving back. So that's probably the biggest step we're proud of.

Speaker 1: 13:20

That's amazing Because, also, you know, what we know about coaching cultures in organizations is that there's lots of things that you won't be measuring but that will be happening. That's hard to measure because every time somebody experiences being listened to deeply, they begin to see that they could do that with their colleagues as well, as a as a small example of the whole impact of that coaching culture.

Speaker 2: 13:44

yeah, and it's domino effect. You know it totally is.

Speaker 1: 13:48

Yeah yeah, I know, and we can't underestimate that quality of those really deep conversations, and not just on those kind of immediate evidence-based uplifts but on the impact of the quality of relational leadership within the organisation I think is really important. Yeah, and some of that won't be felt for years in many ways because it will be rippling as the years go on. Yeah, and some of that won't be felt for years in many ways because it'll be rippling as the years go on. Yeah, when you talk about uplift, are you able to give me an example of what that might be An uplift in what?

Speaker 2: 14:22

Yeah, so we have a range of about 12 goals. So, such as confidence, executive presence, negotiations, so there's about 12 coaching goals. We say, and so pre and post, those is where we're seeing the uplift, okay.

Speaker 1: 14:39

Okay, that's great, that's great. Yeah, and what about what's the impact for people coaching? Yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:47

I love this question, jean, because usually when I come out and do these talks.

Speaker 2: 14:51

I love this question, jean, because usually when I come out and do these talks, everyone pays attention to the ROI on the clients or the coaches.

Speaker 2: 14:57

However, for us and a huge component of my role is really truly fostering a world-class internal coaching team where we're really giving back to create a community of like-minded people through numerous interventions to help and support and grow their coaching skills.

Speaker 2: 15:16

So it's interesting just in a couple of weeks, we're sending out annual pulse check survey to all of our coaches and what we have been seeing over the past years is coaches are feeling a greater connection and sense of purpose to the bank and it's played a real key area for their growth and development.

Speaker 2: 15:37

So we have countless coach testimonials where and as I said, some of these are extremely senior business leaders and coaching is a small component, but it's what they look forward to the most, and so what we are seeing is that it's been seen as a real retention retention and professional growth, and also for us, it's about how we can attract best talent. It's a real unique value proposition that most other large organizations don't have and I'll just share with you is, interestingly, over the past few years, what we have seen a massive shift before, sponsors used to come and they wanted to have their colleagues coached more and more. Now and you would know, jean, through our relationship is our sponsors want to build coaching capability and that's really encouraging to see because we're seeing the domino effect on how those colleagues will then interact with teams, people, leaders and stakeholders. So that's what I'm really truly excited about there.

Speaker 1: 16:38

Yeah, me too, because you know, my theory is that when leaders coach, it's good for everybody in the organisation. It's good for them because often leaders are saying I'm so caught up in the day toto-day that I miss out on those meaningful interactions. And they're having more meaningful interactions not just when they're coaching but in their day-to-day leadership roles, and so it's really great to hear that you're saying that it's having that. That's true. My assumption, my dream, is actually playing out.

Speaker 2: 17:11

So I'm very happy to hear that.

Speaker 1: 17:13

Yeah, and I wonder if you could share one or two success stories from how the program has either impacted the coaches or other individuals.

Speaker 2: 17:23

Yeah, yeah, and I think, to be honest, jean, this is the reason why I've stayed in my role so long. I feel like I'm in such a privileged position where I really see firsthand the engagement and transformation. And also we've talked about the coaches and clients Also don't remember, ignite is through also our sponsors, so our senior leaders in the bank, and it's really cool to see them getting excited and wanting to make a big difference for their people and business segments. So, as we know, kind of success is a very personalized journey and so we don't like to compare and so it's interesting.

Speaker 2: 18:01

When I read this question, I was like when we think about successes, you know, and we definitely have we have a lot of success stories or the, the traditional success stories where colleagues have climbed through the seniority ranks and they've actually gone multiple levels, now to MDs. That's one. We've also seen multiple colleagues completely reskill and find their passion and join new teams within the organization and completely re-energize and engage. A little bit of a taboo, but we've actually supported colleagues who were completely disengaged to go out of the organization and actually what we are finding is our coaches are actually finding such a purpose in coaching that they've actually left like completely different roles to pursue more coaching related activities. And then, jean, we also have such a range of heartwarming stories from those people returning back from maternity leave, battling with depression, going through illness, going through redundancies and, you know, seeing their increased self-awareness, no longer kind of playing victim to external circumstances and really holding true to their power and their behaviours. A lot of those stories that have just been truly heartwarming.

Speaker 1: 19:19

Amazing, and I know I've heard some really amazing stories from people in this journey. Yeah, so I hear from some of the people who've trained with us that it gave them kind of the courage to go for jobs within the organisation that they might not have gone for, because they kind of got to know themselves. When you train as a coach, you learn so much about yourself that it helps them really gain that courage and so many more besides that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely so I know. You know we talk to organizations who are looking to create a coaching culture and to create internal coaching faculty, as you have really hugely successfully done within Standard Chartered. What would your advice be to organizations seeking to do this?

Speaker 2: 20:11

Well, you know I'm completely biased and so obviously I would strongly encourage all organizations to lean in and build their own internal coaching teams. You know, as we've just talked about we've talked about the ROI from coaches and colleagues and sponsors but actually from like a high level, macro, organizational standpoint, we're offering, through Ignite, really sustainable coaching at scale. What I haven't mentioned here is we run our traditional flagship Ignite program, which is four months, but now our coaches we run a complimentary 45-minute career coaching conversation that's available to all people within the organization. We've expanded into group coaching for all of our 15,000 people leaders. Now leadership has been embedded as not only a nice to have but it's actually a necessity. So all of our people need to incorporate coaching skills and so now we're actually facilitating coaching as part of all of our leadership programs, which is really important.

Speaker 2: 21:19

So I think for any organization it's going to be a key enabler to retain talent. Colleagues are always looking to grow and develop. What better way to practice coaching and also to attract in this war of talent, to be a key enabler to attract the best talent? And yeah, I would just say go forth and multiply, I think as we move into the world of AI kind of the gig economy and de-layering of management. Coaching is the critical skill when we look at dealing with all the ambiguity, navigating change. That is the skill that we're going to need for the future. So, even if you send colleagues external to train as a coach and perhaps they don't even coach, as I said, they'll be showing up in a better capacity for themselves, their people leaders, their teams, their stakeholders. So for us, it's absolutely a no-brainer and actually a necessity for all of our colleagues to have coaching skills.

Speaker 1: 22:21

Yeah, that's amazing to hear that and I completely agree. I mean, I think that as we have become more technologically focused, the increased imperative for leaders is to be more relational, and actually we have to dial both of those up, and learning to coach actually gives you all the skills that you need to be a relational leader, so it creates that opportunity for you, I think.

Speaker 2: 22:46

Yeah, absolutely yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:49

It's incredibly inspiring to hear your story. I'm noticing a couple of things that I think, perhaps for anyone listening who's thinking about doing this, one is to start small actually. So you, even though it's been, you know you are where you are. It's taken a long time and the starting small meant that you were able to get a few people engaged, warm up people in the organisation to it, see some small wins, you know, and see that early piece, because then it grows itself. It's like it kind of grew from that to scale and presumably will keep growing as more and more coaches train and more and more people feel it's important.

Speaker 2: 23:32

Start small, but start now, as we say to all of our clients. Jane, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 23:34

it is it is, yeah, it's like it's the idea of a one percent or a one degree turn. So you just want to to start with some people who are keen and eager and then, and then they will carry on the conversations and it grows from. There.

Speaker 2: 23:50

And the thing is, the success will build from itself. So, as I said, you do a small pilot and you don't need to touch anything because people are going to be watching those people being coached and becoming coaches and just visibly notice. It's like you know, I believe all coaching leads to wholeness. So, yeah, absolutely would be leaning in to, to start great, I agree.

Speaker 1: 24:16

So before we finish, let's come back to you and I want to ask you a couple of a couple of kind of personal questions about you and your journey. I wonder first of all, if I can ask this has required a huge amount of your personal courage, strength, you know, putting yourself forward. Has imposter syndrome shown up much for you, and how have you dealt with it when it has?

Speaker 2: 24:41

Well, june, it's funny that you ask about imposter syndrome, because I remember receiving your email a few months ago when you asked me to come on this podcast and I experienced it. I had that feeling on my belly. Who am I to film on a podcast with all the amazing guests that you've had, and what am I? And I also remember in the early days when I was starting Ignite, I was not even a coach and I've been the least experienced coach running a coaching team, and so for me it's always present. But I feel I think it's always present and I feel that for me it's good nuggets, because I think imposter syndrome is actually really a warning sign that you're kind of coming out of your comfort zone. And what I say to all my clients is I firmly believe where there is discomfort, there is discovery, and you need to lean into that. So I think in my own personal experience I played so small and so stagnant for so many years I was so in my comfort zone and I want to say to everyone listening I think there is a time and a place to be in comfort zone, absolutely, but I was in there for way way too more, too too long, and I really think that if you're not, uh, growing, you're shrinking and over a matter of time, your life has kind of been dictated by other people and it can really play into your self-worth and confidence. To be honest, I've coached so many people and it's such a large percentage of our people, you know, they go to sleep at the same time, on the same side of the bed, they wake up at the same time same coffee, same social media and they wonder why they're feeling an unfulfilled lifetime, you know. So I think imposter syndrome's there, and would you like me to share some tips on what I do around? It might be all amazing, so for me I kind of feel like it comes in my body and I've been told I've been really, uh, experienced in listening to that, so and naming the emotion. So what am I feeling? Is it fear, is an? Is it anxiety? And it's stress and letting that know that that's okay, that's absolutely okay, and once again, reminding me that we've been here before, but leaning into that and seeing how we can reframe and embrace the situation and use this as a growth opportunity.

Speaker 2: 27:09

I always say to my clients when they experience something coming to them, whether it's big, maybe it's a health challenge, maybe they're losing their job. I kind of feel like life's a video game. There's a baddie at the end of each level and you wouldn't be where you are unless you've gone through all the levels beforehand. I really firmly believe that you're not thrown anything in life unless you're supposed to be there, and that's a really, really important reminder. And I think you know silencing the monkey mind. We all have those thoughts and I'm no different. I'm not good enough. You know I can't do that.

Speaker 2: 27:45

Things never go my way and for for me, I kind of have a lot of positive affirmations around and I actually and I would recommend anyone doing this I have a word document that is on my desktop at work and I write down my achievements, not only my own, the team, and any email I get of any encouragement from anyone, even as a random stakeholder. And when I'm feeling down or discouraged, I kind of go through that and I don't think I've gone through it more often. But that's really gives you the stamina to say you know what, we are on the right path. And I think, lastly, I think it's about kind of like our daily habits. I'm not sure about you, but so many times it kind of I would say that a lot of our clients they're dictated by other people. So for me I'm really conscious about protecting my, what I say yes to and no to. And I kind of think it's about a lot of clients say, well, why are you the way you are? And I think it's a mental gym. So if you have an incredible body, you don't go to the gym twice a week and eat healthy twice a week. You're doing things daily. So I'm a really avid meditator every single day and I think that's been really useful for me to kind of notice the thoughts even the Wi-Fi is not working, the traffic or this and just de-excite the mind.

Speaker 2: 29:11

I love journaling and gratitude. You know, the more positive kind of we focus on, the more we see. And I think also what I would say is I've reduced and eliminated a lot of things. So reducing time on social media, particularly news, with everything that's going on in the world we don't have control over, and then I would say the kind of people in our life that aren't really serving us and creating some healthy boundaries around there have really, really helped get out of that imposter syndrome, because I think imposter syndrome is also linked to lacking of confidence. And lacking of confidence is you're not doing enough self-care and self-love, so I think they're all kind of intertwined, but definitely out of my uh imposter syndrome, speaking to you now, jean, so, but you still stepped up and did it.

Speaker 1: 30:02

Here you are, so yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 30:05

I mean, there's a million excuses. You know you can always, can always play excuses, or you can play big.

Speaker 1: 30:11

Yeah, I agree Lovely. Thank you for sharing that. There's lots of amazing practical suggestions there. So my final question, as ever, is do you have a podcast or a book or something that's influenced you that you would recommend to others?

Speaker 2: 30:31

Yeah. So, as I said, you know people. I'm a huge Tony Robbins fan, but actually it's funny I know his mentor. I'm not sure if you've heard of Jim Rohn, and I don't know if anyone wants to listen to any of his podcasts. He speaks really slow, he is an an american and I can just say, uh, he was really ahead of his time. I really, really enjoy. Um, as I said, it's all about coaching and that gross mindset and about us being in control. And what I love about everything is he uses the analogy that winter is always coming, so bad times are always coming. So what are you doing in the summertime and the springtime and in the good times to prepare for the winter? And that kind of leads me back to those daily habits. So, jim Rohn, I think it's really quick and slow to digest and I just like listening to your voice. Jean, I love listening to your podcast, but also Jim Rohn. It's struck a chord with me and I love listening to him Great.

Speaker 1: 31:35

Thank you Well, katie, thank you. You've inspired and energised many people into coaching and into changing their own lives, and thank you for doing that. It's amazing.

Speaker 2: 31:52

Thank you for joining me today. Thank you, jean, and um, yeah, it's been an absolute pleasure great thanks for joining this episode of making sense of work.

Speaker 1: 32:04

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